Apr 5 2021
Big episode of Sober Yoga Girl is out! It is my first guest who is not on a sober journey. I recently started sharing about my experience in a manipulative relationship on Instagram and was really surprised to hear how many others had had similar experiences. The first time I went through it, I truly felt like no one out there understood. After sharing openly about it on IG, and seeing how many people were resonating with my story, I wondered if there were Narcissistic abuse professionals & support groups out there - and that’s how I found Adriana Bucci.
She is a Narcissistic Abuse recovery coach and sitting down with her and hearing her story from chronic pain, the mind body connection, toxic family dynamics and eventually becoming a Narcissistic Abuse Recovery Coach was extremely inspiring. If you have experienced Narc abuse I highly recommend giving this episode a listen - but even if you haven’t, it might tip you off to the warning signs to prevent it in the future.
Listen here.
Thank you Adriana for taking time to be on the show. Follow @letsgetyourshifttogether for hilarious reels and amazing insights, and check out her coaching programs for more information.
If you do listen please don’t forget to rate, share & subscribe so the podcast can reach more people it would benefit!
TRANSCRIPT
Intro: Welcome to the “Sober Yoga Girl Podcast” with Alex McRobs, international yoga teacher and sober coach. I broke up with booze for good in 2019 and now I'm here to help others do the same. You're not alone and a sober life can be fun and fulfilling. Let me show you how.
Alex: All right. So, welcome back to another episode of Sober Yoga Girl. This episode in particular, I'm excited for because it is the first time I'm interviewing someone that is not on a sober journey with a different kind of special expertise. I guess I should say. So, I have Adriana Bucci with me today and she is a narcissistic abuse recovery coach.
Adriana: Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
Alex: Thanks for coming on. And Adriana is based in Toronto which is where I'm originally from, which is cool.
Adriana: Exactly. The Toronto connection.
Alex: So, let's get started and you can tell me a bit about kind of your history, your career and sort of what got you into narcissistic abuse recovery coaching in the first place.
Adriana: Sure. So, I never intended on it. It just kind of happened. So, my journey starts like, with just coaching in general, it starts with chronic pain and, you know, some people might be wondering what does that have anything to do with narcissistic abuse recovery. Well, apparently everything. So, yeah. I had this crazy chronic pain from 2015 to 2019 and it all happened after I got my wisdom teeth removed. So, I mean, that's kind of, getting my wisdom teeth removed was like, the catalyst of me becoming a life coach.
Alex: Wow.
Adriana: So, yeah. After that happened, I would go through this downward spiral of everything going wrong. So, I ended up with a TMJ Dysfunction after which is like, my jaw was just completely messed up. I did an MRI, it showed that my jaw was pressing on my ear canal and that's what was causing me to have all this pain, and migraines, and then, eventually, neck pain. Eventually, I got carpal tunnel syndrome. I had surgery on one hand. It was a complete utter disaster. And then, I ended up getting this treatment done for my jaw like, in 2018, which it was like, splints and braces, so I was just like, pissed that I had braces for the second time in my life. And then, I get shingles in my mouth with these braces.
Alex: Wow.
Adriana: Yes. With this whole treatment happening, and that was a nightmare. It was a complete nightmare. So, my jaw was already on fire because it was moving around, and then I get shingles like, of all things for a 30-year old to get, in their mouth, whilst it's getting treated for, you know, like, rearranged, essentially. Yeah. And then I ended up with Trigeminal Neuralgia after that which is, it's like the nerve on the side of the face that like, it's responsible for all the feeling on half your face. That, I ended up with Trigeminal Neuralgia, so that's nicknamed the suicide disease because of how painful it is.
Alex: Wow.
Adriana: And, you know how the wait times are in Canada for the healthcare here.
Alex: Yeah.
Adriana: Yup. So, it was like a solid 18 month wait to see the neurologist but I was doing research and thinking, Hey, I will do the surgery like, let's sever the nerve. It's basically a brain surgery like, that's how much pain I was in because I was completely losing my mind.
Alex: Wow.
Adriana: And, yeah. Then I stumbled upon something called The Mind-Body Connection. I was just sort of mindlessly scrolling on Facebook in January 2019. I found this app called Curable. I would highly recommend it to anybody who has chronic pain. And that was where I learned about this whole Mind-Body Connection thing where it's all about any chronic pain that you have that's lasted for more than six months. You've gone to the doctor. There's nothing life-threatening going on. There's no like, new fracture. There's no like, cancer or tumor or like, life-threatening sort of disease happening. It's because of repressed emotions from childhood trauma. So, I was like, What the hell? And sure enough, it worked because I had no other options for pain relief at that point. So, as offended as I was by this concept, I figured, let me just do the work, see what happens, and whatever. Because I couldn't take painkillers anymore. I was getting ulcers. I was getting nerve block injections in my face to just like, numb it because of the Trigeminal Neuralgia and Botox to paralyze my face, so it just wouldn't move and hopefully not have any pain, but of course, it didn't really work or it would work for a bit, and then it would absolutely stop working. So, it was just very, very frustrating. I was just chasing pain relief constantly. So, I did this inner work reluctantly, it was all about like, releasing your repressed emotions, and sure enough I felt better. And within four months, I was completely pain-free.
Alex: Wow.
Adriana: Yeah. So, that's when I decided, Yep. I'm gonna be a chronic pain coach and coach other people who, you know, might be struggling to do this inner work if, you know, whether it's through Curable or any of the other people who deal with this Mind-Body Connection stuff like, it's great to have a coach because I totally went way too fast. I like, re-traumatized myself and all that fun stuff, so I figured, you know what, let me guide people to do it like, not that quickly and, you know, they won't re-traumatize themselves, they'll have that accountability and all that, and then, sure enough, I started talking more and more about narcissistic abuse and my experience with my narcissistic mother and all that on Instagram. And so many people were resonating with that, and then, I realized like, Wow. So many people have narcissistic parents, or narcissistic significant others, and this was something that I was able to heal from while I was healing from my chronic pain because it's all of those repressed emotions, it's all connected. And so, that's kind of when I decided to shift my focus to narc abuse recovery, and here we are.
Alex: Wow. That is such an amazing story, and it's so relevant for yoga teachers because that is kind of so much of what I do is like, you know, our emotional experiences live in our body physically, and so much of the yoga practice is like, releasing that. And so, that's a really amazing story of like, how you ended up with what you're doing now.
Adriana: Thank you. Yeah, I never thought this would happen.
Alex: Yeah.
Adriana: Like, it's wild. And for sure like, the yoga community needs to know about the Mind-Body Connection because it's really everything.
Alex: It is. And I, for a long time, so I suffered from mental illness as like, a young person and I did therapy for ages, and I just had no comprehension like, I thought the physical body and the mental body were like, two different things like, there were literally two offices at queen's university like, one for mental health one for physical health and like, that is how I saw it.
Adriana: Yeah.
Alex: And it took me years to understand that it's like, literally all one thing, and our emotions can manifest in us physically.
Adriana: Exactly. And like, the separation that society has made with the mind and the body, it's causing more issues for more and more people. And the more people that learn that, no, the mind and the body are literally the same thing. The body is a reflection of the mind, the mind is a reflection of the body. And it's, you know, it sounds so woo-woo, and so, like, what are these people talking about, because we're so ingrained that your mind is completely separate from your body, you see a therapist or a psychiatrist for your mind, and you see your doctor for your body and that's it.
Alex: Yeah.
Adriana: And yeah. It's, the separation's just, it's harming more people than anything.
Alex: Yeah, absolutely. So, you kind of mentioned sort of sharing on Instagram and social media about your narcissistic mother, and that was how I came across your Instagram. So, we were kind of chatting before the episode and I said, you know, so I've recently been through a manipulative relationship, and I actually experienced it as a younger person as well, and it occurred to me like I have this really rich sober community, that I've connected with online and I thought, you know, this must exist for people who have recovered from narc abuse as well, you know? Especially once I started posting about it on Instagram, so many people commented, so many people message me saying, they've been through it as well, which just blew my mind because I thought I was like, the only person in the world.
Adriana: Right.
Alex: But, so many people have been through it.
Adriana: Yeah.
Alex: And so, I came across your Instagram, literally just by either googling or searching. And then, I just really connected with your content, and here we are.
Adriana: Amazing.
Alex: Yeah. So, tell me a bit more about, like, so I've been sharing about my experience in this type of relationship, and I'm finding that people who haven't been through it just like, don't really understand it. So, I was wondering if you could kind of give an explanation of like, what's, you know, abuse from someone with narcissistic personality disorder would be like, and, you know, what's that experience like?
Adriana: Yeah, a lot of people don't get it. And that's either because they're still going through the abuse and they're not seeing it as abuse, or they just literally have never experienced it ever. That's when you get people who like, leave very invalidating comments or troll comments and things like that, and it's just super annoying.
Alex: Yeah.
Adriana: But they can go be little rain clouds in their own little corner for all I care because the people that are being helped by, you know, people sharing their stories like this is so much more important than whatever these people have to say. So, anyone who is going through narcissistic abuse, you might not even know that it's happening because it's just so, you know, it can be so insidious sometimes. There's overt narcissism where, you know, it's obvious. It's like, Okay, this person, they're showing like, they are an [ __ ], they aren't shameless about it, they don't care who knows about it, and, you know, I give those ones a little bit of credit because at least you're showing your true self and people can, you know, not associate with you based on that, or they know how to approach you because they already know like, who you are, right? But when you're dealing with covert narcissists it's they, you know, if it's like in a relationship, if they came on way too strong at the beginning and, you know, they start love bombing you. It's, you know, it's very much like, they show up as like, the knight in shining armor. They want to be the hero of the day and like, save you from like, whatever, and they want to make you all these promises like, you know, the future, this, that and the other. And then, they tell you crap like, I've never met anybody like you before. All my exes are crazy. That's a huge red flag. Those are all red flags right there. And that's love bombing and that's really designed to hook you into the relationship, so that, you know, you kind of feel like, Wow. This person sees me. This person really values me. This person has so many great things to say about me and that's amazing. And especially if you've grown up with a narcissistic parent or had other previous relationships that ended really badly, you're just so used to this love bombing and that is what you think is true love, but it's actually manipulation. And then eventually, that goes into the devalue stage so they start, you know, making little digs. So, at first, it might not be so like, hurtful it'll be like, little things like, Oh, are you sure you're gonna wear that shirt like, you know, we're going to this place, maybe you shouldn't be wearing that, maybe it's a little too to this, or too that, or whatever. And then eventually, it'll just turn into attacks on your character and all of the stuff that you had in common when you first met, you don't have it in common anymore because they were just humoring you and, you know, they don't have the same favorite movie as you anymore, and it just starts to not make any sense. And the first sign of narcissistic abuse is confusion on your end, because it's really done purposely to confuse you, so that they can keep controlling you, because they get a little kick out of getting supply from their targets. So, what they're really looking for is a reaction from you. That's narcissistic supply. So, when you give them your energy, your reaction, your time, your attention, your resources, praise, attention, all that stuff. They're feeding off of it and like, they're getting a little kick out of it. And yeah, it's really messed up. But the problem is that most people don't think that way, so you're assuming that they're going to behave like a normal person so that just keeps you stuck in that loop over and over and over, because they'll make you these promises, then they'll break them, then they'll apologize, and then you just go through this whole cycle of abuse over and over and over again, and it's just this whole repetition. So, it's not about, you kno ah. There's so many layers to it.
Alex: No, absolutely. Yeah. And I know like, when I was in my most recent relationship, I wasn't aware of it until literally a year later. Even when other people told me like, other people told me what was going on, and I was in disbelief, and it was not until I like, physically saw it and I know like, I've seen this on Instagram like, one of the reasons why narcissists and sociopaths are so good at what they do is because healthy minded people just cannot wrap their head around the fact that these people actually exist. It's so hard to believe.
Adriana: Yeah. It's so hard to believe because, you know, most people have good intentions.
Alex: Yeah.
Adriana: And you just can't imagine other people not having those intentions and, you know, that's part of projection too in a way, because it's like, you're projecting your normalcy onto narcissistic people at the same time, so it doesn't, there's never this connection when you realize that I worded that weirdly. You don't make the connection until later that they were not on the same page as you like, in their mindset because their intentions are completely different. Their goals are completely warped.
Alex: Right.
Adriana: Yeah.
Alex: So, tell me a bit about, you kind of got into like, what it looks like, with the narcissistic parent. Can you tell me more about like, how that plays out and what people can, I guess, when they're in it, what could they do?
Adriana: Yeah. So, it could play out in so many different ways. I'll share how it played out for me. So, for me, it was like, a lot of financial abuse and a lot of, I'm-the-only-person-that-you-will-you'll-ever-have-in-your-life type thing. So, I really grew up believing that I only had my mother and, you know, she did a lot. She did a lot of manipulation. So, she actually alienated me against my father, so she brainwashed me completely into thinking he was a complete monster and horrible person, and tried to make us be homeless, and he never paid for child support. And I didn't realize that, you know, what would happen to a father in the province of Ontario if they don't pay child support, they will end up in jail or lose their passport and, you know, he was between Canada, Italy, and The States, so that wouldn't have happened if he didn't pay child support, but I never thought to Google it as a kid because you just believe your parents.
Alex: Right.
Adriana: So, of course, I found documents later after the fact that showed that like, Oh my gosh, he actually did try, and, you know, he had custody, he had visitation rights, but my mom made me believe that he was so horrible that I did not want to see him. So, if he did want to see me, he would have had to come with the police. So, she just created this whole web of insanity.
Alex: Wow.
Adriana: And yeah, I just couldn't move out of the house until I was like, 26 or something 26, 27, because she just kept taking all of my paychecks and, you know, she made me feel like I had this obligation to support her financially. So, she completely sabotaged me financially throughout my entire life, and I had to like, secretly save money and eventually like, I moved out, which that was, I had reached this huge breaking point and I didn't realize that I had a narcissistic mother until I was going through a breakup with a narcissist. So, it was just wild. And that's when I went down this whole Google rabbit hole, and then I found stuff about narcissistic mothers, because I was already like, so confused by the last narcissist I had ever dated, because that was a quick relationship. It was like a five month or but I was so like, disturbed by how confusing it was, and that's what got me to start Googling. And then, I realized my mom's a narcissist too, but I had to be in denial for another year and a half. And then, eventually, started to accept that my mom was a narcissist. So, it can definitely play out in ways like, how it played out for me, it can play out very similarly for other people. It's like, they have the same tricks but, you know, it's different because everybody's situation is different, but a lot of guilt trips, a lot of, I made so many sacrifices for you and you don't appreciate anything, and then you realize, Oh, wait a minute, being a parent is a choice. So, you know, she just kind of made me feel like I was a burden just for simply existing and I just put this whole burden on to her, but really, it was her just manipulating me into getting supply, because parents, narcissistic parents think that their children are a lifetime source of supply for them. So, the more circular conversations you have with them, the more they feed off of it and all that kind of stuff, and it's kind of disgusting to think that a parent could do that to their kid. But yeah, they can, so.
Alex: Yeah. Wow.
Adriana: Yeah, that's kind of it.
Alex: Do you think that it's common for people who have had a narcissistic parent to then end up in relationships that are narcissistic?
Adriana: Totally. Because you grew up thinking like, this is what love is, this is how love is supposed to feel and like, you know, the intimidation, the gaslighting, and the guilt trips, the having to prove yourself that, you know, you didn't breathe wrong or whatever, you know, like, they'll get all up in arms over the pettiest little things. That's what you think is normal, and you genuinely believe that this is how relationships are. This is what love looks like. And you have to do all of this work to make sure that you're acceptable for this person, otherwise you're gonna get yelled at or punished in some sort of way.
Alex: Wow.
Adriana: Yeah.
Alex: And so, what would you recommend to someone who is in a relationship with a narcissistic parent like, how, what's the best way to kind of deal with that?
Adriana: So, the best way to deal with it is to not deal with it and to separate yourself as much as possible, because they're never gonna change. There's people out there who will say like, Oh, well that's not fair to say that they're never gonna change. But like, no they would have changed by now if they gave a [ __ ], and, you know, there are studies that have been done like, with actual psychiatrists and psychologists, and people in the mental health field that proves that they do not change. It's a very rigid personality disorder. You have to accept that. That they will not change, because hope is a killer, in this case. You cannot have hope, that things are gonna get better with this relationship because if you've tried and tried and tried and tried to make things work over and over and over again, it's not gonna work again just because you change your approach. It's them. It is all them, who, you know, they are the issue, there's nothing wrong with you, and you can only try so much, and you could continue living your entire life trying to get that validation from your parents, or you can decide that you want to live your life on your own terms, and decide that that validation doesn't matter because there's other things to do in life besides making your parents happy. And that would be like, my biggest recommendation is to just try and get away as much as possible. Set some boundaries. You don't have to go completely no contact. There's situations where you can't. Like, maybe you're the only next of kin, maybe, you know, you have legal stuff that you have to deal with that parent or whatever it is, but you can definitely use strategies like, gray rocking, where you just kind of be as boring as possible, don't give them any emotional response or anything like that. One word answers. And that kind of takes away the supply and it saves your energy in a way. They're still going to try. They're still going to be their own little rain cloud of narcissistic rage and craziness and all that. But you have to kind of stick to your guns and like, realize like, No. Like, this is how they're gonna act, and expecting them to act how they act because if you keep expecting them to change, that's going to be very, very disappointing. And I get that it's really, really difficult to cut off a narcissistic parent. I've been through it. I get it. And there's that whole regret of like, you know, what if they die, and I regret it? And I recently went through that myself because my narcissistic mother actually passed away in July 2020, and I have no regrets whatsoever, like, it was definitely like an interesting grief process, but zero regrets, like, I only regret not having left sooner and not having seen the light sooner, if anything. So, it might be really, really difficult to come to terms that you have a narc parent, and that's completely normal. But the sooner you accept what's going on and save yourself like, protect your own energy, protect your boundaries, and do the research that you need to do, do whatever healing work you need to do, and get yourself as far away from that person as you can, and whether that's physically far away and you move to a different country or continent or whatever like, there's people who totally do that or, you know, I was in the same city as my mom. I was extremely, extremely low contact like, basically no contact, but some people would consider it low. But regardless it's, you know, I'm not a no contact, I'm not a no no contact shamer, that's for sure. So, you know, it's definitely one of those things where you just have to look at the perspective of the truth, rather than your emotions around it. And that's why, you know, the emotional work is so important because if you have all of these repressed emotions and you're confused and you have all this brain fog and, you know you have a narcissistic parent and you don't know how to deal with it, it's going to be way more confusing if you don't do any more, any of your inner work, and any like, releasing repressed emotions, because that's just, that's a [ __ ] show in itself.
Alex: Yeah. And I think you touched on something interesting there in like, the whole people always saying, you know, what if you're gonna regret cutting off contact or are you gonna regret this, you know, she's your mom, or he's your dad or whatever but at the end of the day, it's like, what is best for me to live a happy and fulfilling life. And like, only individuals know themselves, you know, what's right for them.
Adriana: Exactly. You're not on this earth for your parents. And a healthy parent understands that. And that's the thing, right? Like, a healthy parent will give their adult child that space to be who they are and to like, you know, figure out what they're doing with their life. Whereas, a narcissistic parent, they just want to control and control and control you and, you know, it's so important to like, just wrap your head around that, if that's what's happening, and you might not have any regrets. You probably won't have any regrets. The one thing that really causes that brain fog is those repressed emotions and you really believe you're gonna regret everything, you're gonna feel really guilty, this that and the other, but you don't realize that like, Okay. If I do regret it, I can just work through it emotionally. If I do, you know, feel grief about it, or guilt about it, or whatever, that's an emotion I can work through rather than acting on it and just, you know, continuing to put myself through these cycles of abuse over and over and over again.
Alex: Yeah. So, let's talk about then like, when it comes into a romantic relationship like, what is that, you kind of explained a little bit about what that's like, but what would you recommend people to do like, if they end up in a romantic relationship with someone who is a narcissist what would you say?
Adriana: Break up.
Alex: Yeah.
Adriana: Get away. Yeah, like, there are so many other fish in the sea like, take a year off of dating and like, focus on yourself and your healing journey, because this is not a relationship that's going to improve in any capacity. There is nothing that's going to make the relationship better. Getting married is not gonna make anything better. Having a baby is not gonna make them smart enough like, you you need to like, really understand that. It's only gonna complicate things even more. So, you know, don't think that there's anything that can save the relationship. If the signs are showing themselves and you're seeing that this person's a narcissist, and you keep getting into these arguments, circular, over and over again. And then, you see the love bombing happening where they try to win you over again, you know, the love bomb devalued, discard phase, all over and over and over again. And you can start seeing that they really are trying to get a rise out of you like, it doesn't matter if they're diagnosed or not like, just get the heck away from that person now, if you do share kids with them, you need to like, get a lawyer involved or an attorney or whatever because that's gonna be a sticky situation, and it's a lot of work, and it could be very expensive, but that will be the best money that you ever spend, getting away from that person, because the peace that you're going to feel after is going to be like, amazing. And it might feel like, you can't live without this person, or this is your last shot at love, or like, whatever is going through your mind, when the idea of breaking up with this person's happening, but your life is more important. Your sanity is more important than whatever ideas of it being too late or whatever they've put in your head is, and getting away is going to be the most important thing like, go no contact if you can, and just wrap your head around the fact that they're never gonna change, and just leave. Go.
Alex: Yeah, absolutely. It's good advice, and I think sometimes it's easier said than done like, I think the denial is very real, like I said earlier like, even people for a year were telling me that my ex was this way and I literally did not believe them. And so, I can totally relate to the denial phase but I think the the most freeing thing is just the--
Adriana: The cutting run. Yep.
Alex: And so, in my research and my Googling, I've read that this can be classified as abuse, which I feel like is hard for people to understand like, people would think of abuse as like, physical abuse or sexual abuse, but emotional abuse is like, kind of hard for people to understand. So, how does this, what characteristics of this kind of relationship make it classified as abuse?
Adriana: Yeah. So, it's absolutely abuse and it's narcissistic abuse. There is a difference between emotional and narcissistic abuse because there is that pattern with narc abuse, and, you know, it's really, it is classified as abuse because they are calculating, getting supply from you. Whatever that supply means to them, so whether, you know, that supply is money or, you know, in a relationship it could be sex or, you know, just attention, getting a rise out of you. All that stuff is supply. And they are literally like, manipulating you and that's abusive because that is making you make these decisions out of, you know, an emotional charge. So, you're deciding to do things out of guilt, or out of obligation, or fear, or shame, or whatever it is, because this person is trying to control you, and that is abusive. And there's nothing not abusive about it at all.
Alex: Yeah.
Adriana: Like, these are people that you can't have a civilized conversation with. You cannot, at all, come to a conclusion and a happy medium with these people. Even if they are verbally telling you that they agree with whatever you're saying, they're gonna turn around and their actions are not going to match their words. They're just like, all talk and then their actions are just like, no, they just want what they want from you. And it's the same thing with like, theft. Right? Like, if someone sees something in your hand and they want it, they're gonna come up to you and steal it from you. It's the same thing with narcissists like, they feel like they're entitled to supply from you, so they're gonna come up to you and they're going to steal it in a very manipulative way, and that is abusive. And financial abuse is a huge part of narcissistic abuse, because you're basically destroying somebody's life and like, opportunities and ability to, you know, be their own person and have freedom or whatever. That's not okay. And just like the choices that people make like, having a narcissistic mother, you are so limited in certain choices like, you don't know what you want to do as a career that sets you back in life. Like, I'm just starting my career in my 30s because now I figured out what it's gonna be, right? But I was just kind of like, hopping from job to job to job, just miserable corporate world crap, and it just was not working out, and I just had no idea what ambitions I had or anything like that. I had no sense of self, and that's the thing, like, it's killing people's spirits because they have no sense of self, and they're stuck, and they're trapped. And narcissists will also try and isolate people from the world, so that their ability to get information is limited. They don't have a support system anymore. They're forced to kind of like, cut their friends off and stuff like that. And it's very, very isolating and then you kind of end up having just this one person that you depend on.
Alex: Yeah.
Adriana: And depending how much they're trying to control you, it can be really, really hard or almost feel like, it's impossible to get out and that's abuse, that's destruction of somebody's life.
Alex: Yeah. Actually, I have another question for you. So, sometimes you just hear the word narcissist being flung around like, Oh, this person's a narcissist. And what would you say are the character traits that would define someone as actually someone with narcissistic like, what's the difference between just saying like, Oh, this person is narcissistic, versus like, this person has this personality disorder?
Adriana: Yeah. So, I try not to like, use the personality disorder word because like, I can't diagnose or anything like that.
Alex: Yeah.
Adriana: But, you know, the word does get thrown around a lot, but I think it's a good thing to be honest, because that's bringing out more awareness that this is a thing and it exists. And a lot of people just think narcissists are people who are obsessed with themselves and like, their appearance and, you know, they just spend a lot of time looking in the mirror but like, how does that destroy somebody's life? You know, that's not narcissism.
Alex: Yeah.
Adriana: That's just being vain and things like that. Right? So, somebody who has narcissistic personality disorder like, they are putting you through an obvious cycle of abuse, right, like, every human has some sort of narcissistic traits. We need them to survive. It's just part of our evolution, and it's not a bad thing if you are not using it to control another person, right? Like, we all have egos. We all want what's best for ourselves. And that's not narcissistic. It's just when you decide that you're entitled to another person in some way, shape, or form, that becomes abusive and not okay. So, these are people who you cannot reason with them. If they are completely wrong about the sky being red and, you know, it's blue, and they're trying to argue with it, and there's so much proof and evidence that, you know, the sky is obviously blue, but they keep trying to argue with you on it like, chances are, this is somebody who's just really stuck and needing to be correct about everything, and that's a sign that they might be a narcissist. But there's like, so many factors to it, so they would have to put you through this cycle of abuse over and over and over.
Alex: Yeah.
Adriana: I think that's just the number one sign like, that you're dealing with an NPD person. And that cycle is just going to keep happening no matter what, no matter what, no matter what. And even if they keep saying, they're gonna change, they're gonna change, they never do. And then, they just keep flipping everything onto you and blaming you for everything, when logically, if you take a step back, right, and you just, you know, kind of take the emotional aspect out of it about, you know, you feel guilty, you feel horrible, you feel like you've done something horribly wrong, but you step away and you look at the situation objectively, I actually didn't do anything wrong. It's actually this person that did it, but now they're blaming me for it. Holy crap. You're totally dealing with a narcissist. So, you know, the life destruction is what is going to classify it as narcissistic abuse rather than just traits, because people with traits, that's anybody and you can definitely have a conversation with them, and have some sort of resolution, and work things out like rational adults.
Alex: Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. That's a good explanation.
Adriana: Thank you.
Alex: I'm wondering if someone has left a narcissistic relationship, whether it's like a parent or a partner, you talked a bit about like, you know, focusing on yourself and working on your own like, healing journey. What would you recommend for someone? How does someone do that?
Adriana: Yeah, so it can be very daunting at first. And that's normal like, it's normal to be overwhelmed of like, Oh my gosh, taking time for myself and healing and, Oh my gosh because like, you know, you have these nice little distractions when you're dating narcissists, especially at the beginning when they're love bombing you and all that. So, you know, you have to take that into perspective that, you know, it's not worth it because it's just going to turn into [ __ ] again. So, taking that time for yourself is just super, super important and the healing journey is, it can be different for anybody, right, like, it's not necessarily like, a one-size-fits-all type of thing. Like, some people find healing through yoga, some people find healing through meditation, some people find healing through working with a therapist, but if it's a therapist, do a trauma-informed therapist who understands narcissistic abuse, because it's, you know, there's myself, and a lot of my clients, and a lot of people that I talk to like, they've had really, really bad experiences in therapy because they've been invalidated, and they've been told, You're not allowed to use the word narcissist to describe this person because they don't have a diagnosis. And, you know, what could you have done differently, how could you have approached the situation differently, because they're probably not a narcissist. And it's like, no like, I've tried. I have tried. And the reason I'm here is because I have tried and now I don't know what to do, so like, Help.
Alex: Yeah.
Adriana: Yeah. So, that's like a very common experience in therapy because it's just like, it's so invalidating, it can be super re-traumatizing, and it can encourage you to stay in an abusive situation. So, make sure they're trauma-informed and they know what they're talking about when it comes to narcissism, because not every therapist is trained in that. You could also work with a coach, right? That's what I do. I'm a coach. I'm usually like, the last resort that people come to because they've tried everything else, but, you know, then that's their last stop, so that's great. But, you know, I do a lot of emotional work with my clients, and teaching them how to express those emotions, and you don't necessarily need to work with a coach to figure out how to do that. You can just Google how to feel your emotions and, you know, there's there's different ways, but there's journaling as well. That's like a really great way. And, you know, just expressing all of your thoughts onto paper and then destroying that paper is a great way of like, getting those emotions to come up, and feeling comfortable to just let yourself cry it out or, you know, whatever the sensation in your body is of that emotion, because the thing with emotions is that they are not this mental process where you just keep thinking and thinking and thinking about how sad, and guilty, and horrible, and grief-stricken you're feeling. It's a full body experience and we're so used to repressing our emotions that it just might not even make sense like, Okay. So, what does feeling your emotions mean? So, you have to kind of let yourself feel those emotions in your body so that's why journaling is so great because you're just vomiting on paper, and that's when like, you can start feeling something rising in your body, and it might feel like a heat flash it might feel like, you know, your hands going numb. It might feel like the hairs on your neck tingling. It might feel like this pit in your stomach where, you know, it feels like you're gonna drop on a roller coaster or something like that. That's the emotion. It's not a medical episode. That's literally the emotion. So, it's all about getting comfortable with feeling the emotion in your body, and when you do that, that's how you actually release it, because it starts, the intensity goes down. And that's the emotion releasing itself, but it's getting to that point that's very difficult, and it just sounds like it doesn't even make sense as a way of healing.
Alex: Yeah.
Adriana: But it works. And, yeah, like, that's the first thing to like, really consider like, Can I feel into my emotions and can I make myself feel safe to feel my emotions? Because that's what causes all the chronic pain. Repressing those emotions, because you don't feel safe to feel them. Because when you're a kid, especially if you're raised by a narcissist, if that parent keeps invalidating your emotions, you just decide that those are dangerous, and I'm going to die if I feel those emotions, because that's how the child brain kind of works. And then, once you hit adulthood, that thought pattern doesn't go away and like, you might not even realize that that's why you're so afraid of your emotions. But it's really because unconsciously, your brain thinks you're gonna die. So, just coming to terms with that, in itself, is part of healing. And, you know, taking time out for yourself, doing the bubble bath thing is very valuable as well, you know, like, doing what's right for you, treating yourself, and just being kind to yourself, and just letting yourself feel however you feel. And taking a year off, especially if, you know, you've been dating narcissist after narcissist after narcissist take, you know, up to a year off of dating. Do some social experiments if you are like, in a place where you can do that. That's totally what I did because I just wanted to like, really figure out if I could sniff out narcissists from the beginning, so I went on a whole bunch of first dates.
Alex: Wow. That's such a great idea.
Adriana: It was hilarious. I was just like, All right. I figured it out. And I would like, behave in different ways just to see if I could predict how they'd react, like the ones that I suspected were narcs.
Alex: Wow.
Adriana: And I was able to predict it. Like, it was just so textbook, so predictable, and it just proved my point. So then, I think that was what helped me meet my husband eventually, because I didn't see any red flags.
Alex: Oh, wow. You're married? I didn't know that.
Adriana: Yeah.
Alex: So, there can be a happy ending. Good.
Adriana: Oh my gosh, yeah. Absolutely. And I got married before I even started the healing journey because I didn't even know the healing journey was a thing, so there is hope. Like, you don't have to be this perfectly healed unicorn. It's just know the signs but, you know, it's probably better off to do the healing work before you get into something, and if I had known back then, of course, I probably would have done the healing, you know, but there's absolutely hope. You do not have to be doomed to repeat the cycle and, you know, knowing what to look out for is very, very valuable, like, awareness and knowledge is huge. So, don't underestimate that, but also don't underestimate the actual healing that also needs to happen but, you know, I'm very lucky that, you know, my husband was very supportive throughout my healing journey like, I was expecting him to just up and leave because it was probably going to be too much for him, but no, he stuck around and he's from a very normal awesome family and, you know, has no idea what narcissistic abuse is like, but he's learning a lot from me.
Alex: Wow.
Adriana: And he was just supportive the entire time. It's not like he could have supported me the way I wanted him to, because he didn't have the understanding, but I understood that. And, you know, that was totally fine. And the unicorns are out there, it's just a matter of understanding and believing that they're out there, and knowing when to shut something down as soon as you see that first red flag, because your intuition always is right about that, so, yeah.
Alex: Yeah. And I think you touched on something huge there with like, education, because I think that is something for me that I've really kind of tried to dive into and like, kind of spend time thinking about like, what is it that, what were the signs in these relationships and like, how can I prevent myself from from falling into it again?
Adriana: Right.
Alex: Because if you just kind of move on without sort of like, sitting with it and reflecting with it, then I feel like I would end up in the trap again, so.
Adriana: Exactly.
Alex: Yeah.
Adriana: That's exactly it. That's how it happens.
Alex: Yeah.
Adriana: So yeah, that knowledge is power. Like, it totally is.
Alex: And so, you talked a bit about your coaching. Can you tell me about what your one-on-one work and what your group work is like with individuals?
Adriana: Sure. So, yeah. I do the one-on-one coaching. Right now, I'm doing like, a 12-week program, and because I just think that's a great time frame for people to actually be committed to their healing journey and, you know, have that accountability factor throughout the whole thing for like, that full 12 weeks, so I have that. There's other things I offer as well for like, you know, people who don't necessarily wanna do the full 12 weeks, but I try to encourage like, at least having some form of accountability with that because you don't wanna just, you know, try one session or two sessions, and it just turns into, Okay. Well, this is too difficult and I'm just not gonna come back and that's it, because the work is scary. So, you know, the program is great because you get all of that support and all of that, you know, accountability and directions and tools on how to do that inner work, and you can come back to those tools anytime, because it can be translated to any other part of your life. So, the one-on-one stuff is amazing for that. My group coaching is awesome as well, and I love the group coaching. I love it. I personally think it's like, the best thing ever, because you can get as many people as possible healing in one group, and they can all share their stories. And then, other people there, they are mind blown when somebody else has like, the exact same story as them, so it's awesome. I do like, boot camps right now. I do like, a boundary boot camp. It's like a four week thing, and it's it's been great. It's been amazing like, people are having such awesome transformations in that as well, plus I do workshops. They're one day workshops, so I mean, you can only do so much healing with a one day workshop, but then they're equipped on like, what to do, and it's it's great like, people are getting these mind shift perspectives and just understanding really that they need to accept the fact that this is who this person is. There's nothing that they can do about it, so they might as well start focusing on themselves and their own healing. So, I think it's great and I think it's like, one of those things where, you know, not trying to [ __ ] on therapists or anything, but when therapy misses the mark on, you know, the validation and the tools and, you know, knowing what to look out for, what manipulation tactics are, how they work, and stuff like that. You don't really get that from therapy.
Alex: Yeah.
Adriana: In my experience, at least. Yeah, so I think that that's super valuable. So, when people are ready for like, you know, the moving forward aspect of everything. It's like, Okay. Let's just put this all into perspective and here are the tools that I need to use in order to move forward. And that's, you know, the best thing ever for so many people. And so many people like, a lot of the feedback that I get is like, I have accomplished more in just a few months of coaching or, you know, just like, one or two boot camps than I have in like, 10 years of just trying to heal through, you know, therapy or like, meditation and like, all these other things that you just keep trying and nothing really works. It's, you know, this this is really the answer, like learning how to process those emotions, and that gives people a much bigger transformation much faster, and it's so worth it, and their future selves will always thank them for making that decision.
Alex: That's amazing. Honestly, you have such like a great energy, and hearing you talk about your programs, it makes me wanna sign up for them.
Adriana: Amazing.
Alex: Because it just sounds incredible, and I think so many of my clients and listeners, and even a couple of my friends who have been through the same thing, like, I'm sure they would be interested to learn more. So, if any the listeners are interested, can you tell me, like where can they find you?
Adriana: Yeah. So, the best place to find me is Instagram. That's where you'll get like, the most updates and the most content. So, it's @letsgetyourshifttogether, all one word shift with an "f". So yeah, all of my most up-to-date like, offerings and either workshops, boot camps, or like, one-on-one stuff will always be posted on Instagram. So, that's the best way to see what I'm up to. My website is, letsgetyourshifttogether.com, so very easy to remember as well, so you'll have all of the other information there and other offerings as well. And yeah, that's pretty much in a nutshell. I have a TikTok account but I don't really go on there that much, it's really just to make reels for Instagram that I can't make on Instagram.
Alex: Yeah.
Adriana: So, you could find me there but don't expect a response. I mean, kind of the same thing with Instagram because like, I get way too many DMs but, no, like, Instagram's though the place to be for my content, if anything.
Alex: Awesome. Perfect. So, I'll post in the episode description kind of your links and then everyone can find you.
Adriana: Thank you. I appreciate it.
Alex: Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate it. This episode has been amazing.
Adriana: Thank you for having me.
Alex: And I look forward to kind of following your journey and seeing what else you offer, and then maybe sometime we can collaborate or work together on something.
Adriana: Totally. I would love to. That would be awesome. Thanks so much for having me on your podcast, I totally appreciate it, and I hope that this has helped any listeners who might or might not know that they're dealing with narcissistic abuse.
Alex: Yeah. I'm sure it'll help many.
Adriana: Yeah, awesome.
Alex: Thank you so much and thanks for listening everyone.
Adriana: Thank you, bye.
Alex: Bye.
Outro: Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Sober Yoga Girl with Alex McRobs. I am so, so grateful for every one of you. Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss the next one and leave a review before you go. See you soon. Bye.
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